The World in the Wardrobe

hubbrad:

fantastic-nonsense:

[snipped for length]

(To begin with you’re “a female” so do whatever i guess but personally i prefer not to be addressed by a psuedonoun right out of a nature documentary)

So Idk if I can really tell you why moffat or whomever WOULD make a female doctor (i cant tell you why a sexist would do something notsexist except maybe because enough people like me asked for it?) but i will tell you why they should and why what you said is wrong.

you’re right in that there are a lot of womyn in doctor who [notably thin ablebodied and eurocentrically beautiful womyn]. however, unless you think hugh hefners mansion is a matriarchy, quantity=/=quality. That’s why we’re not asking for more female companions; but for a woman character [the doctor] who’s storyline is all her own. Reresentation is key to one’s own opinion of possibilities. As a girl watching doctor who, I see only the possibility of being rescued by a man and swept up in a life [unlike the dull one i managed for myself] revolving entirely around him [for a while until he dumps me off somewhere]. If I’m a fat, ugly, old, or disabled woman: I don’t see myself at all. Every womyn’s story in DW revolves around the doctor and what he wants and needs and does. I mean Clara was literally born to save the doctor and god even knows how River’s storyline is tied into him. And that’s fine; except I don’t want to be defined by a man. I want a female character that is strong in and of herself [even the lesbian couple only shows up when the doctor needs them and the human one is objectified when she takes her fucking coat off only for 11 to make a boner joke. thanks moffat that’s not creepy.] I don’t see why we “need a reason” for the doctor to be a female. Why is the fact that 50% of the population is made of womyn and would like to see themselves there not enough? Why should the hero’s seat be reserved for only white men when they are so not the majority? Why do I NEED A REASON TO WANT TO SEE MYSELF AS A HERO AND NOT A SEXY SIDEKICK??

[also: changing a female heroine to a male would not be the same as this. a man could literally change the channel to almost anything else and see the man as a hero. if you take away a canon heroine to make it a man i have nothing else to watch. if you think these are equal, you suck at math.]

What you said—

1. Canon- theres no rule saying the doctor must stay a man. Like you just said timelords could switch sex so why not? You seem to just be saying ‘well the doctors been a white dude 5eva so why change’ which is shitty becuase 1) if not now never. In 15 years when people ask for a doctor that represents more than the white guy part of the population people like you will have 75 years of canon if moffat hasnt killed dw by then. 2) umm canon history of acting/theater was white guys in dresses or blackface. Im glad someone said ‘actually lets change some shit’

2. Capitalism- im a commie. Meaning i try to always prioritize people over money. You should try it sometime. Also honestly idk why you think “millions” of peeps are gonna stop watching but dw has like 77 million fans and id hope we care more about how half those fans feel like they could only ever be companions and even then only if they were willing to snog the doctor than the sexist fuckwads who dont want to watch a female heroine. (Ill make up for it ill pay x10 in merch w a female doctor and x1000 for a fat female doctor). You know what really sells if moneys all that matters? Porn and fart jokes- lets not let doctor who become that.

Also— um yes lack of good female representation is a not a good reason to demand wtfever i want from doctor who “there arent enough strong women so the doctors fav color should be orange and all the next companions should wear sweaters” but um duh it is a good reason to ask for better female representation..duh?

Anyways im gonna go watch buffy til moffat retires- so if youre going to try to rebut me for any reason beyond getting in the last word you should take this to someone else as i’m done arguing about this for today.

much love, hannah.

Wait…because I’m a female, that suddenly means I can do whatever I want? Cool!

…accountability does not shift just because you’re male or female. You can and should be held equally responsible for your actions regardless of sex. Women do not get a free pass just because they’re women and ‘oppressed by the patriarchy’.

If you’re looking for a Doctor Who that has a female Doctor for the reasons you stated, I’m sorry, but you’re going to go have to find another show. The show is about the Doctor, sure…but it is chiefly the companions that drive the series. If you want proof of this, look no further than Ten’s adventures on his own (the Tennant specials). You cannot have the Doctor without a companion; they complement each other and drive each other’s stories. To say that making the Doctor a woman would make her have a storyline that’s all her own…clearly you don’t understand the dynamic of the show. The Doctor is nothing without his companions. His story hinges on the companions. Making the Doctor a female does not change that dynamic.

Doctor Who is not a story about the Last Time Lord. It’s a story about the companions and what they experience on their journeys with the Doctor. It’s a story about how the companions react and their journeys as characters. Yeah, sometimes the show focuses more on the Doctor sometimes, but let’s face it: would Doctor Who have made it 50 years if it was just a story about an alien saving the universe by himself? No one to stop him when he gets too dark, no one to stand beside him and be his friend, no one to share laughs and tears and hugs with? No…Doctor Who is a story about the companions, and the companion’s strengths and weaknesses, and how they help keep the Doctor going.The companions ARE the show.

If you’re looking for a main female character (s) whose show is her story and hers alone, you’re out of luck. Because good stories HINGE UPON the main characters’/supporting characters’ stories.  Yeah: Go watch Buffy. Go watch Xena and The Mists of Avalon and Persepolis and Daria and Miyazaki movies and Wonder Woman. Watch W.i.t.c.h. and The Powerpuff Girls and She-ra and Sailor Moon and Pepper Ann. They all have female protagonists and are all pretty awesome. But the supporting characters are still vital elements of the world the protagonist lives in.

You don’t have Moulder without Scully. You don’t have Raven and Starfire without the rest of the Titans. You don’t have Artemis and M’gann without the rest of the Team. Dee Dee without Dexter, Wendy without Peter Pan, Katara and Toph without the rest of the Gaang. Korra and Asami without their gang. Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl without the rest of the Justice League. Daenerys and Arya without the rest of the cast. Zoe Washbourne and River without having the rest of the Firefly crew. Leia without Luke and Han.

But vice versa, all of the other people’s stories depend on these women’s stories too. ALL CHARACTERS FEED AND DEVELOP OFF OF EACH OTHER. This is how stories work. You can’t have a female protagonist whose story is wholly her own. You can’t have a male protagonist whose story is wholly his own. You cannot have a protagonist whose story is wholly their own. That’s not how stories work, and to say that making the Doctor a woman would ‘make that story her own’ is fallacy.

I say we need a reason. Because we need a reason other than ‘representation’ to change the sex of an already established character. I am not adverse to a female Doctor; I just think it’s unnecessary. If you want a sci-fi series with a female protagonist, fine. I want them too. But demanding to change the sex of an already established character…yes, we need a reason to do that.

And as a woman watching Doctor Who as well, I do not see it that way. All of the companions chose to come with the Doctor; they could have refused or left at any point in time. Martha left. Christina DeSouza accepted the Doctor’s refusal and ran off in a flying bus to have her own adventures. Adeline Brooke. Amy left on her own terms (I mean, it was rather forced, but she could have stayed). River refuses to travel as the Doctor’s companion. Grace Halloway declined. Donna refused, the first time he met her. So did Rose, until he asked her a second time.

None of the women on the show are forced to come or remain with the Doctor. Not one. Yes, they are incredibly tempted (and who wouldn’t be), but they all choose to come and stay of their own accord. They could have refused or left, as others have and do and will continue to do.

The companions save the Doctor almost as much as he saves them. And why is him saving them such a bad thing? No one can be capable all the time. Everyone needs saving occasionally, and to say that they don’t is a lie.

And how does every woman’s story revolve around the Doctor and what he wants and needs? Clara’s has, but she’s the only one I can say that about. Rose has incredible development through her two seasons, and had multiple subplots not revolving around the Doctor’s wants/needs. Martha walked away because her family was more important to her than traveling the universe. And how on earth can you say that Donna’s arc revolved around her catering to the Doctor’s wants/needs? Amy? No. He was her best friend, her very best friend. But she had subplots and motivations not motivated by the Doctor’s wants and needs. Even River lives a productive life outside of the Doctor (admittedly off screen).

Have you really disillusioned yourself so much that you give such a disservice to the companions?That you completely disregard a companion’s contribution to the show? The Doctor and the companion SHARE the role of protagonist, and that’s not going to change even if we ever have a female Doctor.

‘Why should the hero’s seat be reserved for only white men?’

It’s not. The companions are the heroes just as much as the Doctor is. You have completely disillusioned yourself to the very point of the show, the very point that the show has driven home again and again and again over 7 seasons (and the 30 something seasons and a TV movie before that): The Doctor is defined by his companions and the relationships he has with them. The companions and women of the show are often the heroes just as much as the Doctor.

You are not really complaining about the gender of the titular character in Doctor Who, but complaining about an issue that is present in the genre and general media. I get it. But changing the sex of a character just because you can? That’s just like making the Doctor have a wife just because you can. You’re no better than Moffat, honestly.

Yes, we should have females in the heroes seat and yes it should be far more equal. But why are you attempting to have this change done in a show that is 50 years old and is entrenched in the aforementioned canon of the show? It’s not going to happen. You are far better off campaigning for more shows that star female protagonists instead of fighting a lost cause of making a sex change.

[also: changing a female heroine to a male would not be the same as this. a man could literally change the channel to almost anything else and see the man as a hero. if you take away a canon heroine to make it a man i have nothing else to watch. if you think these are equal, you suck at math.]

The issue here is not whether or not a man could switch a channel and see himself as a hero on another channel. The issue is changing the sex of an established character because of the thoughts of a certain subset of an audience. You are skirting around the real issue and making up all kinds of BS about why female heroines are needed. Yes, they are needed. I have stated this many times. SO INSPIRE PEOPLE TO CREATE SHOWS WITH FEMALE HEROES. GO MAKE ONE YOURSELF. Stop trying to change the sex of an established character whose sex is just as much a part of who he is as his many relationships and friendships. How would you like it if I waltzed up to your story and said, “Hey. You need to make that character a man, and this character a woman,” even if you already have multiple seasons of your show out and the character in question has an established past with an established storyline and an established character? Or asked your father to get a sex change because ‘there aren’t enough women in the world’. No; he probably wouldn’t want to get a sex change. (I mean, if he has or does, that’s completely okay, I’m just using an example here). The Doctor has always portrayed himself as a man and identified himself as a man. WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO FORCE A SEXUAL IDENTITY ON AN ESTABLISHED CHARACTER? STOP. Respect that the Doctor identifies as a man, just like I respect that the female characters identify themselves as female.

Canon- theres no rule saying the doctor must stay a man. Like you just said timelords could switch sex so why not? You seem to just be saying ‘well the doctors been a white dude 5eva so why change’ which is shitty becuase 1) if not now never. In 15 years when people ask for a doctor that represents more than the white guy part of the population people like you will have 75 years of canon if moffat hasnt killed dw by then. 2) umm canon history of acting/theater was white guys in dresses or blackface. Im glad someone said ‘actually lets change some shit’

Already addressed the first half of that. And dresses and blackface were changed because 1) Women were allowed to be in theatre (and why on earth is a man in a dress a bad thing? Are you against crossdressing or something?) and 2) Blackface was racist, and actively hurting/playing on a harmful stereotype of a population.

Who is it hurting that the Doctor is a man? Honestly. Why is it so bad that the Doctor is a man? Why is it ‘a failure of feminism’ if the Doctor is not a woman? He’s a male character. So what? You want to do a crusade and have all the tv shows change their male characters into female? That’s not how this works.

Capitalism- im a commie. Meaning i try to always prioritize people over money. You should try it sometime. Also honestly idk why you think “millions” of peeps are gonna stop watching but dw has like 77 million fans and id hope we care more about how half those fans feel like they could only ever be companions and even then only if they were willing to snog the doctor than the sexist fuckwads who dont want to watch a female heroine. (Ill make up for it ill pay x10 in merch w a female doctor and x1000 for a fat female doctor). You know what really sells if moneys all that matters? Porn and fart jokes- lets not let doctor who become that.

So in addition to not knowing the basic dynamics of the show in question, you don’t have a clue about economics either. Good to know. Sweetheart…the western world is capitalistic. You might not be, but society is. Get over it. It’s a harsh fact of life living in the Western World. You are not going to get anywhere arguing about media if you don’t acknowledge the fact that it’s all about the money.

I don’t like it, and you don’t have to like it, but you must acknowledge that that is what drives media. Money. Companies and shows will always create what they think will get them the most money.

And no: porn and fart jokes would NOT earn Doctor Who the most money. Because that’s not what the viewers of Doctor Who want. That’s not why people watch the show. If the show became that, you’d have an entirely different, way smaller audience that would watch the show, and most of those 77 odd million fans would leave. Because that’s not what they want. Consider Torchwood. Even though it was a Doctor Who spin-off, it got WAY less views that DW did. Why? Because it appealed to a different, more restrictive audience than DW does. It appealed to the older, more mature fans who enjoyed sex and crude jokes and violence and other mature themes along with their sci-fi.

So you…a lone fan…and maybe a couple thousand others, are going to make up for the loss of a couple million fans in terms of revenue? …Right. Let me know how that works out for you.

I personally prioritize people over money. But I also recogize the fact that society doesn’t, and instead of fighting for a lost cause that is quite frankly dumb, I instead inspire writers, join with other fans to ask networks and producers, and wish and hope for new series that star female protagonists. This is what will get more female protagonists on air, not misguided attempts to make the writers give the main character of a a single established show a sex change.

Also— um yes lack of good female representation is a not a good reason to demand wtfever i want from doctor who “there arent enough strong women so the doctors fav color should be orange and all the next companions should wear sweaters” but um duh it is a good reason to ask for better female representation..duh?

So even though females outnumber males in Doctor Who like 5 or 6 to 1, somehow they’re ‘underrepresented’? Yes, it’s a good thing to ask for better female representation. Ask, go ahead. It’s a good thing. But you can have better female representation without giving the male co-protagonist a sex change. And no, you don’t have the right to demand ‘wtfever’ you want from the show, because at the end of the day, it’s not your show. You watch it, but you don’t own it, you don’t really have any input into it, you don’t have any influence at all as to what happens in the show. You and a couple thousand others are fans, is all. And a couple thousand, in the grand scheme of things relating to Doctor Who, is a very small number.

Basically…you still haven’t give me any good reasons why the Doctor should be a female. You’ve given me (poorly worded) variations on the same reason: that females should be better represented in the show, which I’ve proven to be false, because females vastly outnumber the males in the this show. I understand if you don’t want to reply anymore, but I just suggest thinking hard about why you actually want the Doctor to be a woman.

(Source: sweetchildofgallifrey)

hubbrad:

fantastic-nonsense:

hubbrad:

mgdarion:

hubbrad:

mgdarion:

mgdarion:

hubbrad:

mgdarion:

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING BEFORE RESPONDING. THANKS!

While I agree that the analogy (and response to it) was disgusting and, if nothing else, in poor taste, there are still the questions of things like gender identity, canon sex changes, and a…

Okay, you want a female Doctor now?  Fine.  Accept that Moffat is going to do a poor job writing her and you will probably hate her.  I’d like to hold out for a well-written female Doctor.

As to the brain difference, again, there is a marked difference.  By this I mean that different areas are more active.  THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOT EQUAL AT ALL.  It means that they have different evolutionary roles and have evolved to fulfill them.  This also means that, as those roles change, brain activation changes with them.  A species never really stops evolving.  To some extent, upbringing definitely influences.  However, environmental factors usually complement genetic factors.  This is why twin studies show only a 60-80 percent correspondence for both twins being gay.  In fact, most twin studies for any genetic tendency are not even 90 percent conclusive.  The underlying cause may be genetic, but the expression is influenced by environmental factors.  Of course, there is always bias in these studies.  On both sides.  The only way to eliminate bias is to eliminate the human element.  This is somewhat difficult to do because scientists are human…

i will hate everything moffat every does. like moffat can’t handle any female characters. that doesn’t fucking mean i’m going to sit back and say ‘well yeah we could have exactly 1 single strong female character but then again moffat will fuck her up so let’s have a 100% male cast’

you know how evolution works right? like it doesn’t magically make women weaker and more motherly and men wore manly or whatever. it just does whatever the fuck makes more babies that live longer. i’m really not all that keen on the “evolutionary roles” thing i can think of a shitload of gross uses of that.

i don’t disagree. the point is that for me science is part of society. we shouldn’t be shaping our societal norms/ values after what science says becuase what science says reflects societal norms/ values.

eg. sexist scientists/ scientists existing in a sexist world are going to have sexist conclusions are going to fuel sexism. that doesn’t mean ~halt all science~ it means recognize that this whole “brain sex” thing is pretty useless because the results/context are iffy and the application is iff-ier. like who the fuck cares if men and women are inherently different except for the people who don’t want to look too far into why women are scoring lower and getting paid less and not as highly valued. 

science changes as society changes. so i don’t want to use [at least not as some major premise/ argument] science in talking about where society should go because i want progress not ~well women are just like that because that’s what science said last week kinda like how it used to say that educating women led to hysteria and also survival of the fittest so imperialism is cool~

But, as someone just pointed out in my askbox, there are more females on Doctor Who than males.  Much of the cast is female.  Right now, we have the Doctor and Strax as the main males, but we have Clara, River, Vastra, and Jenny as major female characters.  Granted, they’re not the strongest, most independent women, but you yourself admitted that Moffat likely would not write a female Doctor that way, either.  

Yes, I know how evolution works.  Calm down.  You know me and you know I’m not trying to insult women.  But you should also know that I went to NCSSM because I do science.  I make conclusions based on the evidence in front of me.  Not how I go into it thinking or how I want to think about it.  The fact that evolution acted in this way to preserve offspring does not change the fact that it happened.  Of course it didn’t happen magically, and it didn’t happen unilaterally.  As homo sapiens spread out, different groups in different areas underwent microevolution differently.  This is why we have different races:  Groups underwent microevolution (evolution within a species) to adapt to their area.  So this wouldn’t be unilaterally the case.  A region by region study would be interesting.  

But current studies show a difference. There is no changing that fact.  MRIs are not biased.  What is open for debate is what causes this difference.  Is it cultural? Genetic?  Environmental?  We don’t know.  Neuroscience is a difficult science at best and there is a lot we are unclear on.  Perhaps it really is all because our culture has trained women to think this is how they are or should be.  However, based on other cases, it is my opinion that there is likely a bit of genetic, cultural, and environmental influence on this difference.  There usually is.  How much of each is difficult to say.  But, usually, there is a relatively minor genetic tendency towards an area which is aided into becoming major by environmental factors and then encouraged by culture.  

I definitely do not believe we should base gender roles or how people behave off of such studies.  Then we really would have a cyclical structure of self-fulfilling prophecy.  However, that doesn’t mean we should dismiss it out of hand, either.  It is interesting to study and could become major in empowering transgender people.  It should be watched closely and analyzed skeptically, but not dismissed.  

As you stated, we can’t not do science because “bias.”  We will never get anything done if we stop doing something because of bias.  However, we should not dismiss scientific studies because they are offensive and the interpretations could be colored by bias.  There is always room for balance.

yes and moffats women are subject to great discrimination and his sexist writing. therefore if we don’t want a female character to be badly written we should hope no more come and the rest go away while moffats around according to your logic.

but i don’t really know you that much..? not to mention the whole “i go in without what i want to think” thing isn’t so well supported. i mean even going in looking for gender differences is sort of telling. science doesn’t happen in a vacuum. 

let’s talk about MRIs— they aren’t structural differences- they’re use differences. i see no reason why that wouldn’t be EXTREMELY subject to social conditioning; you’re saying your hypothesis is that it’s “a bit of each” and i don’t necessarily disagree except that you have 1) literally no proof why it shouldn’t be just social conditioning since structurally brains do not differ in the studies i’ve found and 2) why that affects what we’re talking about..? like that just proves that society conditions us. whoopty-do i’m saying that too. [also if u hmu with the study[ies] ur talking about without much questioning that would be lovely because i’ve looked around and they all seem like shit.]

IF IT’S UNCLEAR THEN WHY ARE WE LETTING IT AFFECT US? WHY ARE YOU BASING AN ARGUMENT ON SOMETHING THAT’S UNCLEAR AT BEST AND CREATED BY A SEXIST SOCIETY TO SUPPORT AN ONGOING SEXIST SOCIETY AS MORE LIKELY?

it’s not going to empower trans* people if it just re-enforces strict rules on both cis and trans* individuals and their gender performance.. like what’re we gonna do? give MTF people math tests and if they score low enough say ‘yup ur probs a girl’? or say ‘sorry transman you don’t like cooking or babies so no operation 4 u despite serious disphoria?’ fine you’ll use mris or some real sciencey equipment— still, what happens if you fail? why not just change society so you know PEOPLE CAN DETERMINE THIS STUFF FOR THEMSELVES

i’m not saying dismiss all freaking science. i’m saying that if scientific findings are brought about by -ism; let’s not EVER prioritize it above promotion of human rights and dignity. if the scientific studies are “unclear” and “colored by bias” why on earth should we allow ourselves to get stuck in an endless cycle of  ~what we do in society influences science influences what we do in society~

eg. we don’t promote the interests of girls in mathematics because ~science~ shows girls aren’t good at math so girls get worse at math and hey the science is probably based on crappy testing and systematic disadvantage in society but hey also it’s science and we shouldn’t change society because science~ 

wtf?

[one last time for emphasis: i like science. it’s cool shit. but every step of it happens in reality— a place full of scary things like sexism and racism. science is not immune to that shit. i will never take science’s word over the word of the people affected by that shit. when society changes science will catch up and tell us some really cool stuff but for now i’m not gonna quit by saying whelp! girls may or may not just be shitty leaders by nature so let’s leave the glass ceiling until science figures things out itself because spoiler: science doesn’t lead social change, it follows]

anyways super big award for derailing like theres no reason the doctor cannot/should not be a woman [yeah yeah moffat would write an awful woman that’s not really responsive and again that’s just cause for us to protest the addition of any more female characters, nonwhite man characters, or plotlines for him to fuck up. let’s kick him the fuck out- i agree; but why can i only want one thing for doctor who at a time?] and theres no reason that i should sit around listening to scientists muddling in whether or not im inherently inferior or just conditioned that way rather than trying to go out and fix a bit of the damage society is doing to everyone.

much love, hannah

Whoa whoa whoa, hang on a second there, both of you.

Okay, let’s go back to the original discussion. Why WOULD the Doctor be female? No, don’t go tell me ‘because he can’, give me a reason. What logical, rational reason would there be for making the Doctor a female?

To increase representation? The females far outweigh the males on the show, pretty much always have. You have the Doctor, and the companion, who is usually a female. Okay, equal representation so far. Sometimes there’s a male companion, or one in addition to the female. Okay, tipped the balance. Now we look at side characters, the one offs or the recurring characters. A lot of times, these are women. Vastra, Jenny, Angie, Liz Ten, the little girl from RoA, Madge and Lily Orwell, Nefertiti, Kate Stewart, River, Emma Grayling, Idris/the TARDIS, the woman from The God complex (unfortunately, I can’t remember her name)…and that’s just some of the women since series 5. You have a lot of women in this series. A LOT of women. So to argue that this is a problem of representation is just using false information and appealing to the ever present emotion of ‘but women are underrepresented!’ …which, they’re not. They may be underdeveloped, but they’re not underrepresented. For every man, there is at least one or two women in the series. It’s the nature of the show.

And when there is only one companion, chances are is that it’s a female, and so the Doctor and his companion SHARE THE ROLE of main characters. They are equally represented. So don’t tell me this is an issue of representation, because it’s not.

The only Time Lord ever stated to change sex during regeneration was the Corsair. He seems to be an exception. I am not saying that they CAN’T make the Doctor a woman, but there is no logical reason to do so. He has been a male (or has identified as male) for 50 years. There is not a rational reason for them to suddenly go ‘Oh! Let’s make this 50 year old character a female!’

You are projecting desires and wishes that are just not logically reasonable. There is no reason for them to make the Doctor a female on the show. Yeah, some people may want it, but…you know, face it: Doctor Who is a television program. TV exists to make money. Money is made when the show is watched by the most people. So most shows appeal to the greatest audience. Making the Doctor a woman? That 1) violates the established 50 years of canon of the show 2) would make thousands, if not millions of people stop watching and 3) would probably be seen as an unnecessary change.

Just because women are underrepresented in television does not give you the right to demand a character that has had an established sex change that sex. If I demanded that we genderbend a female character into a male, you’d instantly cry sexism, even if males are underrepresented in the show or for some other reason.

Female characters being underrepresented does not give you a pass to demand that the writers and showrunners of a show conform to how you want the show to go.

Thank 4 input

And thanks for not answering my question.

Please tell me: why would they make the Doctor female?

(Source: sweetchildofgallifrey)

hubbrad:

mgdarion:

hubbrad:

mgdarion:

mgdarion:

hubbrad:

mgdarion:

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING BEFORE RESPONDING. THANKS!

While I agree that the analogy (and response to it) was disgusting and, if nothing else, in poor taste, there are still the questions of things like gender identity, canon sex changes, and a…

Okay, you want a female Doctor now?  Fine.  Accept that Moffat is going to do a poor job writing her and you will probably hate her.  I’d like to hold out for a well-written female Doctor.

As to the brain difference, again, there is a marked difference.  By this I mean that different areas are more active.  THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOT EQUAL AT ALL.  It means that they have different evolutionary roles and have evolved to fulfill them.  This also means that, as those roles change, brain activation changes with them.  A species never really stops evolving.  To some extent, upbringing definitely influences.  However, environmental factors usually complement genetic factors.  This is why twin studies show only a 60-80 percent correspondence for both twins being gay.  In fact, most twin studies for any genetic tendency are not even 90 percent conclusive.  The underlying cause may be genetic, but the expression is influenced by environmental factors.  Of course, there is always bias in these studies.  On both sides.  The only way to eliminate bias is to eliminate the human element.  This is somewhat difficult to do because scientists are human…

i will hate everything moffat every does. like moffat can’t handle any female characters. that doesn’t fucking mean i’m going to sit back and say ‘well yeah we could have exactly 1 single strong female character but then again moffat will fuck her up so let’s have a 100% male cast’

you know how evolution works right? like it doesn’t magically make women weaker and more motherly and men wore manly or whatever. it just does whatever the fuck makes more babies that live longer. i’m really not all that keen on the “evolutionary roles” thing i can think of a shitload of gross uses of that.

i don’t disagree. the point is that for me science is part of society. we shouldn’t be shaping our societal norms/ values after what science says becuase what science says reflects societal norms/ values.

eg. sexist scientists/ scientists existing in a sexist world are going to have sexist conclusions are going to fuel sexism. that doesn’t mean ~halt all science~ it means recognize that this whole “brain sex” thing is pretty useless because the results/context are iffy and the application is iff-ier. like who the fuck cares if men and women are inherently different except for the people who don’t want to look too far into why women are scoring lower and getting paid less and not as highly valued. 

science changes as society changes. so i don’t want to use [at least not as some major premise/ argument] science in talking about where society should go because i want progress not ~well women are just like that because that’s what science said last week kinda like how it used to say that educating women led to hysteria and also survival of the fittest so imperialism is cool~

But, as someone just pointed out in my askbox, there are more females on Doctor Who than males.  Much of the cast is female.  Right now, we have the Doctor and Strax as the main males, but we have Clara, River, Vastra, and Jenny as major female characters.  Granted, they’re not the strongest, most independent women, but you yourself admitted that Moffat likely would not write a female Doctor that way, either.  

Yes, I know how evolution works.  Calm down.  You know me and you know I’m not trying to insult women.  But you should also know that I went to NCSSM because I do science.  I make conclusions based on the evidence in front of me.  Not how I go into it thinking or how I want to think about it.  The fact that evolution acted in this way to preserve offspring does not change the fact that it happened.  Of course it didn’t happen magically, and it didn’t happen unilaterally.  As homo sapiens spread out, different groups in different areas underwent microevolution differently.  This is why we have different races:  Groups underwent microevolution (evolution within a species) to adapt to their area.  So this wouldn’t be unilaterally the case.  A region by region study would be interesting.  

But current studies show a difference. There is no changing that fact.  MRIs are not biased.  What is open for debate is what causes this difference.  Is it cultural? Genetic?  Environmental?  We don’t know.  Neuroscience is a difficult science at best and there is a lot we are unclear on.  Perhaps it really is all because our culture has trained women to think this is how they are or should be.  However, based on other cases, it is my opinion that there is likely a bit of genetic, cultural, and environmental influence on this difference.  There usually is.  How much of each is difficult to say.  But, usually, there is a relatively minor genetic tendency towards an area which is aided into becoming major by environmental factors and then encouraged by culture.  

I definitely do not believe we should base gender roles or how people behave off of such studies.  Then we really would have a cyclical structure of self-fulfilling prophecy.  However, that doesn’t mean we should dismiss it out of hand, either.  It is interesting to study and could become major in empowering transgender people.  It should be watched closely and analyzed skeptically, but not dismissed.  

As you stated, we can’t not do science because “bias.”  We will never get anything done if we stop doing something because of bias.  However, we should not dismiss scientific studies because they are offensive and the interpretations could be colored by bias.  There is always room for balance.

yes and moffats women are subject to great discrimination and his sexist writing. therefore if we don’t want a female character to be badly written we should hope no more come and the rest go away while moffats around according to your logic.

but i don’t really know you that much..? not to mention the whole “i go in without what i want to think” thing isn’t so well supported. i mean even going in looking for gender differences is sort of telling. science doesn’t happen in a vacuum. 

let’s talk about MRIs— they aren’t structural differences- they’re use differences. i see no reason why that wouldn’t be EXTREMELY subject to social conditioning; you’re saying your hypothesis is that it’s “a bit of each” and i don’t necessarily disagree except that you have 1) literally no proof why it shouldn’t be just social conditioning since structurally brains do not differ in the studies i’ve found and 2) why that affects what we’re talking about..? like that just proves that society conditions us. whoopty-do i’m saying that too. [also if u hmu with the study[ies] ur talking about without much questioning that would be lovely because i’ve looked around and they all seem like shit.]

IF IT’S UNCLEAR THEN WHY ARE WE LETTING IT AFFECT US? WHY ARE YOU BASING AN ARGUMENT ON SOMETHING THAT’S UNCLEAR AT BEST AND CREATED BY A SEXIST SOCIETY TO SUPPORT AN ONGOING SEXIST SOCIETY AS MORE LIKELY?

it’s not going to empower trans* people if it just re-enforces strict rules on both cis and trans* individuals and their gender performance.. like what’re we gonna do? give MTF people math tests and if they score low enough say ‘yup ur probs a girl’? or say ‘sorry transman you don’t like cooking or babies so no operation 4 u despite serious disphoria?’ fine you’ll use mris or some real sciencey equipment— still, what happens if you fail? why not just change society so you know PEOPLE CAN DETERMINE THIS STUFF FOR THEMSELVES

i’m not saying dismiss all freaking science. i’m saying that if scientific findings are brought about by -ism; let’s not EVER prioritize it above promotion of human rights and dignity. if the scientific studies are “unclear” and “colored by bias” why on earth should we allow ourselves to get stuck in an endless cycle of  ~what we do in society influences science influences what we do in society~

eg. we don’t promote the interests of girls in mathematics because ~science~ shows girls aren’t good at math so girls get worse at math and hey the science is probably based on crappy testing and systematic disadvantage in society but hey also it’s science and we shouldn’t change society because science~ 

wtf?

[one last time for emphasis: i like science. it’s cool shit. but every step of it happens in reality— a place full of scary things like sexism and racism. science is not immune to that shit. i will never take science’s word over the word of the people affected by that shit. when society changes science will catch up and tell us some really cool stuff but for now i’m not gonna quit by saying whelp! girls may or may not just be shitty leaders by nature so let’s leave the glass ceiling until science figures things out itself because spoiler: science doesn’t lead social change, it follows]

anyways super big award for derailing like theres no reason the doctor cannot/should not be a woman [yeah yeah moffat would write an awful woman that’s not really responsive and again that’s just cause for us to protest the addition of any more female characters, nonwhite man characters, or plotlines for him to fuck up. let’s kick him the fuck out- i agree; but why can i only want one thing for doctor who at a time?] and theres no reason that i should sit around listening to scientists muddling in whether or not im inherently inferior or just conditioned that way rather than trying to go out and fix a bit of the damage society is doing to everyone.

much love, hannah

Whoa whoa whoa, hang on a second there, both of you.

Okay, let’s go back to the original discussion. Why WOULD the Doctor be female? No, don’t go tell me ‘because he can’, give me a reason. What logical, rational reason would there be for making the Doctor a female?

To increase representation? The females far outweigh the males on the show, pretty much always have. You have the Doctor, and the companion, who is usually a female. Okay, equal representation so far. Sometimes there’s a male companion, or one in addition to the female. Okay, tipped the balance. Now we look at side characters, the one offs or the recurring characters. A lot of times, these are women. Vastra, Jenny, Angie, Liz Ten, the little girl from RoA, Madge and Lily Orwell, Nefertiti, Kate Stewart, River, Emma Grayling, Idris/the TARDIS, the woman from The God complex (unfortunately, I can’t remember her name)…and that’s just some of the women since series 5. You have a lot of women in this series. A LOT of women. So to argue that this is a problem of representation is just using false information and appealing to the ever present emotion of ‘but women are underrepresented!’ …which, they’re not. They may be underdeveloped, but they’re not underrepresented. For every man, there is at least one or two women in the series. It’s the nature of the show.

And when there is only one companion, chances are is that it’s a female, and so the Doctor and his companion SHARE THE ROLE of main characters. They are equally represented. So don’t tell me this is an issue of representation, because it’s not.

The only Time Lord ever stated to change sex during regeneration was the Corsair. He seems to be an exception. I am not saying that they CAN’T make the Doctor a woman, but there is no logical reason to do so. He has been a male (or has identified as male) for 50 years. There is not a rational reason for them to suddenly go ‘Oh! Let’s make this 50 year old character a female!’

You are projecting desires and wishes that are just not logically reasonable. There is no reason for them to make the Doctor a female on the show. Yeah, some people may want it, but…you know, face it: Doctor Who is a television program. TV exists to make money. Money is made when the show is watched by the most people. So most shows appeal to the greatest audience. Making the Doctor a woman? That 1) violates the established 50 years of canon of the show 2) would make thousands, if not millions of people stop watching and 3) would probably be seen as an unnecessary change.

Just because women are underrepresented in television does not give you the right to demand a character that has had an established sex change that sex. If I demanded that we genderbend a female character into a male, you’d instantly cry sexism, even if males are underrepresented in the show or for some other reason.

Female characters being underrepresented does not give you a pass to demand that the writers and showrunners of a show conform to how you want the show to go.

(Source: sweetchildofgallifrey)